'It Ends With Us' Star Justin Baldoni Breaks Down Toxic Masculinity (& Gets Candid About His Own Healing Journey)

What does it take to build communities of respectful, considerate and emotionally intelligent men? How exactly can guys go about unlearning toxic patterns and replacing them with healthy habits after internalizing so many wrong ideas about manhood? And more importantly, is society moving in the right direction when it comes to how "healthy masculinity" is defined?

As an entertainment editor who has seen her fair share of problematic male characters on screen (and encountered quite a few in real life), I've pondered these questions for a while. And then came Justin Baldoni's Man Enough, an insightful podcast that not only shines a spotlight on this issue, but also creates a safe space for men to "embrace their full humanity."

Fortunately, I got to sit down with the director and star of It Ends With Us to discuss this very topic, from the impact of social pressures on men to his non-linear journey of redefining masculinity. Keep reading for Badoni's honest thoughts on male vulnerability, mental health and how it all ties to his current partnership with Dog Chow, which highlights the positive impact of PTSD service dogs on veterans' lives.

PW: I love what you're doing through Man Enough, that you're challenging people to think more deeply about what healthy manhood should look like. You've also been quite vocal about the importance of male vulnerability. Why do you think it's so challenging for most men to be vulnerable?

JB: I think that as men, we are taught from an early age that vulnerability is weakness. Vulnerability is used against us all the time, and so we are shamed when we are vulnerable. As Bell Hook says, we commit that first act of violence not against women but against ourselves. He called it soul murder.

So it's very hard to then practice vulnerability, and then right when you practice it, it gets thrown back in your face. And that's devastating. That happens to men with other men, and also happens to men with women, because we've all been raised in the same system. We've all been conditioned to view vulnerability as weakness. So, I have heard many stories of men practicing vulnerability with women in their lives and having the women shame them, so we can all do better at learning how to hold space for male vulnerability.

We've all been raised in the same system. We've all been conditioned to view vulnerability as weakness.

Justin Baldoni

PW: What are your thoughts on the media's impact on how our culture defines masculinity? Do you think there's been a positive shift?

JB: I think what's happened in the last seven or eight years, it's just that men are seeing more examples of what healthy masculinity could look like. They're also seeing other men who they look up to talking about their insecurities, their mental health struggles, their anxiety, their depression, their PTSD, things like that. So I think that is something that is the biggest shift culturally, is that we are slowly destigmatizing a lot of the ways that men have been suffering silently. And that is getting that permission to feel, because otherwise it's very, very lonely. There's a lot of men who don't have two or even three friends that they can confide in or talk to.

PW: What advice would you offer to men who are doing the work and trying to be vulnerable with friends and loved ones, but not getting the support they need?

JB: I have so much empathy for those men because I know what it's like. I've been there. I think that it's really important to be willing to detach from the people you thought were your friends. Maybe find a circle where you are welcome to be your full authentic self. That can be really confronting and hard to do.

But they're out there, there are spaces out there, and there are men who want to go deep, who make an effort to find spaces and places to be vulnerable. And to those men, I'd say to look for a men's group in your area. Look for a men's group and join that men's group and connect with other men that are wanting the same thing as you. The search for men's groups has increased, like, 100-fold in the last couple of years. So, men are searching for those communities.

PW: Out of curiosity, what does this journey look like for you, as you continue to unlearn false definitions of masculinity?

JB: It's non-linear. There are days when you think you're making great progress, and there are days when you feel like you've made no progress and you've fallen backward. I would liken my journey with masculinity—this is a bad analogy, but I think it makes sense—to an alcoholic's journey in recovery. I'm always going to be a man. I love being a man, but also, the parts of me that haven't served me or the people in my life have been programmed into me, and on a daily basis I have to work to deprogram myself, despite the world telling me I should still be programmed a certain way. And it's non-linear.

You're working and acknowledging that you are predisposed to addiction, as an example. Well, I'm predisposed to not sharing my emotions and all of the various things that men do...carrying the weight of the world on my shoulders, not telling people how I really feel, suppressing my feelings and having them come out as rage. I'm predisposed to all those things, but so long as I'm aware of them, I can work to dismantle them.

I love being a man, but also, the parts of me that haven't served me or the people in my life have been programmed into me, and on a daily basis I have to work to deprogram myself, despite the world telling me I should still be programmed a certain way.

Justin Baldoni

PW: How has it looked to instill these beliefs and set a good example for your kids?

JB: One of the hardest parts about being a parent is that your kids learn from what you do and not from what you say. That's a double-edged sword, because on one hand, you do it right and you're living the right way, and on the other hand, you're screwing them up because you can't help it. So, whether it's because I'm distracted with my phone and they're calling for me and I don't hear them and they have to repeat themselves, or I'm not present because I'm working and I'm trying to do both, like there's always ways that I'm gonna mess them up. But the positive side of it is that the things that I've learned and the things that I'm actively working on every day and the ways in which I am trying to be a better man...they see.

PW: What are some examples of their growth that you've seen? What moments have made you the most proud as a dad?

JB: I'm getting to see the fruits in both of my children in different ways. I'm getting to see that in my daughter. I asked her the other day what makes her feel brave, and she said, "When I stand up for other people. That makes me really proud." She said that because we've talked a lot about being willing to stand up for somebody, even if it means that person doesn't like her. And I asked my son the same question. He just turned seven. I asked him, you know, 'What makes you feel brave?' And he said when he cried at school. I was so proud of him for that answer, because he then said, "I don't like to cry at school because they're not my family, but I cried at school and I felt brave." And I was like, "All right, well, I'm not screwing this up completely." That is a testament to both myself and also, more importantly, to their mother, who is an angel and a walking example of grace.

I asked [my son], you know, 'What makes you feel brave?' And he said when he cried at school. 

Justin Baldoni

PW: What can you tell me about your current partnership with Dog Chow? Why is it important to you?

JB: It's really a blessing when I get a chance to be of service with my work, and it's something that I strive for. I only get so much time on this planet and I really want to make the most of it. I want the work that I do to be helpful. So, with everything in my life, I believe in the double bottom line. I believe that we can do well and do good. And oftentimes, when you do good, you do well. So, service, number one, that's why.